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Post by marksmyth on Aug 28, 2016 9:13:39 GMT
I bought these two on ebay and I'm confused by the sellers language. How are the names written properly?
seller wrote ... Sarracenia X Purpurea ssp Purpurea “Hetero” x Rubra ssp. Jonesii “Antho Free"
should it be Sarracenia purpurea ssp. purpurea f. heterophylla x rubra ssp. jonesii antho free
The second is Sarracenia x (Peaches x Wilisii) x (Minor “Giant” x Purpurea ssp Purpurea)
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Post by fredg on Aug 28, 2016 13:01:18 GMT
Sarracenia purpurea ssp. purpurea f. heterophylla x rubra ssp. jonesii antho free It looks like you've already sorted it Mark
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Post by stevebooth on Aug 28, 2016 13:14:24 GMT
Hi Mark As I understand it the seller is using a bit of shorthand there, the Sarracenia X denotes just that, it is a Sarracenia cross. If it were a cultivar you wouldn't need to put that, you would just put single quotation marks Sarracenia 'Australian Sunset' and everyone would know it is a cultivar cross, otherwise what you have put is correct, but more correctly it is anthocyanin free rather than antho
The second one is also a Sarracenia cross but ''Peaches'' is a cross between (alata x purpurea ssp purpurea) the Willisii without double quotation marks is a cross of ((purpurea x psittacina) x (purpurea x flava) x purpurea), whereas with double quotation marks, it is a cross from Australia to Adrian Slack in the late 70s which it is thought was a cross of S. leucophylla and willisii and perhaps the leucophylla faded on the label but it was certainly missed and has since entered cultivation so probably cannot be corrected. You have two plants with very different parentage win the same name.
The minor giant is almost certainly the tall growing Sarracenia minor var okeefenokeensis and the purpurea would be Sarracenia purpurea ssp. purpurea.
That is as I understand it, but I'm no expert and stand to be corrected. Sarracenia nomenclature is a bit wooley I'm afraid, there are a lot of plant in cultivation wrongly labelled, it goes back to when plants were first listed by the early pioneers giving them Latin names when they shouldn't. You will find that the more you look at it the more confusing it gets.
cheers Steve
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Post by marksmyth on Aug 28, 2016 13:46:39 GMT
so the second one is ... Sarracenia (‘Peaches’ (alata x purpurea ssp purpurea) x ‘Wilisii’ (purpurea x psittacina) x (purpurea x flava) x purpurea)) X (minor var okeefenokeensis x purpurea ssp purpurea) How did anyone work that out? The breeder must have very detailed notes
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Post by stevebooth on Aug 28, 2016 15:52:50 GMT
The ICPS are tasked with the registration of cultivars and their descriptions, as such no cultivar 'Peaches' or Willisii' seem to be registered, and only that would warrant the single quotation marks, nor are either lists on the carnivorous plant photo finder. The double quotation marks denote a working name, or common recognition of a particular plant, but is not a formal name. So the Willisii that you have could be either of the two described but are different plants, so without reference to the seller you may not know which you have.
The simple "Peaches" x "Willisii" would normally do, on a label, as the cross is recognised as the names you have mentioned, but neither should have single quotation marks as they aren't registered cultivars and it depends on which "Willisiii" yo have as to whether that should have no quotation marks or two. You have unfortunatesly selected a plant with a couple of possible histories.
There are a lot of long names with Sarracenia hybrids as you can cross them with each other add infinitum, hence the shorthand on the labels and if serious about breeding or selling plants, detailed notes of your plants. Unfortunately not everyone is and we have a lot of pseudo or just plain wrong plants in circulation.
Cheers Steve
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Post by fredg on Aug 28, 2016 16:42:15 GMT
S. willisii or S x willisii is a fake latinised name for S. (purpurea × psittacina) × ((purpurea × flava) × purpurea) so that would be wrapped in a further set of brackets to cover the willisii part = ((purpurea × psittacina) × ((purpurea × flava) × purpurea)) Fun isn't it
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Post by marksmyth on Aug 28, 2016 21:54:09 GMT
How can I write Sarracenia (‘Peaches’ (S. alata x S. purpurea ssp purpurea) x wilisii ((purpurea × psittacina) × ((purpurea × flava) × purpurea)) x S. purpurea) X (S. minor var okeefenokeensis x S. purpurea ssp purpurea)on a label? LOL
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Post by fredg on Aug 29, 2016 7:08:24 GMT
You could start off your own MS numbers. First entry in the book for that would be MSH 01 (Mark Smyth Hybrid 01)
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Post by marksmyth on Aug 30, 2016 20:22:31 GMT
One day maybe
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